400 or 450???

[underpowered]

ok so i think i am gonna sell my 400. it is way more than i need for what i do with it. i usually fast trail ride, with some slow rides as well. do a race or two every year just for fun but nothin serious really. now here is my dillema. i want a reliable trail quad.

my thoughts are either sell the 400 and get a 450 (not sure which one yet though)

or buy a 400, take some stuff off mine like shocks, siwinger, carb, P&P head, nerfs, bumper, stem ect. leave my motor in my current bike and leave the new one internally stock pretty much to keep it reliable.

what would you do? buy a 450 and have to wait a while to build it. (the motor on the 450 would remain stock, other than a pipe) or buy a new 400 and leave the motor alone and just swap out the parts i already have before selling my current one?

[416exfreak]

450, fo sho.

You wont regret it.

[Ghost-Rider]

I would get a new 400EX, you say you mostly trail ride, so the reverse would be a nice bonus, and plus you know the 400 will last you for ever, and if you like to race every now and then just for fun you should be fine.

[400exrider99]

i like m 450 on the trails but it is kind of apain to turn around with out reverse

[underpowered]

Originally posted by Ghost-Rider
I would get a new 400EX, you say you mostly trail ride, so the reverse would be a nice bonus, and plus you know the 400 will last you for ever, and if you like to race every now and then just for fun you should be fine.

well reverse is not a concern at all. i have ridden 4 years without it, never really needed it. i can ALWAYS find a spot to turn around if i have to.

but my main concern is reliability, and thats the main reason the 400 appeals to me. i know it will last, but the 450's are not proven yet IMO. but the power off the showroom floor of the 450 woudl be great especially in the races, and would allow me to be more competitive.

save money and stick with the 400...the one you already have...i wish i had

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by underpowered
ok so i think i am gonna sell my 400. it is way more than i need for what i do with it. i usually fast trail ride, with some slow rides as well. do a race or two every year just for fun but nothin serious really. now here is my dillema. i want a reliable trail quad.

my thoughts are either sell the 400 and get a 450 (not sure which one yet though)

or buy a 400, take some stuff off mine like shocks, siwinger, carb, P&P head, nerfs, bumper, stem ect. leave my motor in my current bike and leave the new one internally stock pretty much to keep it reliable.

what would you do? buy a 450 and have to wait a while to build it. (the motor on the 450 would remain stock, other than a pipe) or buy a new 400 and leave the motor alone and just swap out the parts i already have before selling my current one?

What's wrong with the 400 you've got now? I'd just stick with that.

[underpowered]

Originally posted by speedyquad
save money and stick with the 400...the one you already have...i wish i had

well the thing is reliability. my 400 is great, runs amazing but seems like i spend as much time woriking on it as i do riding it. thats why i want a fairly stock bike, engine wise. jsut do mods that will not affect reliabilty like carb, Ported head, and a pipe but leave the bore and cam alone.

i love my 400 but i want something i don't have to work on everytime i ride.

plus my quad is honestly more than i need. for my uses. i love bein faster than all my buddies, but it ain't worth it.

[underpowered]

Originally posted by Toadz400
What's wrong with the 400 you've got now? I'd just stick with that.

it is old and nickle and diming me to death. everytime i ride somethin breaks. literlly i ride it once, then fix it. it all started alst year, had no problems for the first three years other than general maintenance. now it is one thing after another. i am lucky if i can ride a whole weekend without somethin breaking on it.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by underpowered
do mods that will not affect reliabilty like carb, Ported head, and a pipe but leave the bore and cam alone.


This says it all, in my opinion.

Reliability is your main concern, but you are still not willing to leave well enough alone, and leave the motor completely stock.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, we all like a power boost. But I think you would be better off with a more powerful motor, and leaving it bone stock. I say go with the 450.

[CDCHONDAS]

Originally posted by underpowered
i know it will last, but the 450's are not proven yet IMO.

450's aren't proven yet??? riiiiiiigghttt

[underpowered]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
This says it all, in my opinion.

Reliability is your main concern, but you are still not willing to leave well enough alone, and leave the motor completely stock.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, we all like a power boost. But I think you would be better off with a more powerful motor, and leaving it bone stock. I say go with the 450.

well i just think i would have a hard time going from my built motor to a completely stock one. and a carb, P&P head and a pipe won't hurt reliability but also give me a nice gain, so i am not losing all my power.

even if i get a 450, it will get a pipe for sure but leave teh rest stock (unless i get a YFZ, it will get teh cam mod as well)



Originally posted by CDCHONDAS
450's aren't proven yet??? riiiiiiigghttt

IMO they are not. i have seen way to many come through the shop i work at with major engine problems. we ahve replaced 4 starter clutches on the new 450's already, bike barely a year old. so no, they are not proven to be as reliable as the 400ex. liek i said, reliability is my main concern.

[CDCHONDAS]

screw electric start, although alot of those issues were rider error, honda has changed the starter clutches. but i like kicking

[underpowered]

Originally posted by CDCHONDAS
screw electric start, although alot of those issues were rider error, honda has changed the starter clutches. but i like kicking

even kicking, they have been known to crack cases. we have two 450rs down here now with cracked center cases, due to not enough support on the kicker shaft.

if i do get a 450, teh YFZ is teh top contender. possibly a 'zuki. never ridden a Kaw but they look to be decent, but i really want a KTM if it weren't for teh price.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by underpowered
well i just think i would have a hard time going from my built motor to a completely stock one. and a carb, P&P head and a pipe won't hurt reliability but also give me a nice gain, so i am not losing all my power.



IMO they are not. i have seen way to many come through the shop i work at with major engine problems. we ahve replaced 4 starter clutches on the new 450's already, bike barely a year old. so no, they are not proven to be as reliable as the 400ex. liek i said, reliability is my main concern.

You're talking about 450R's, not all 450's in general. Yamaha has definitely worked out all their problems and it's a solid engine.

What do you have done to your 400 that makes is so unreliable and more powerful than a stock 450? 450's are a definite big improvement over an air-cooled 400. I think you'd be fairly impressed with just a piped 450 as far as power goes - especially if you don't need something that fast like you stated before.

[underpowered]

Originally posted by Toadz400
You're talking about 450R's, not all 450's in general. Yamaha has definitely worked out all their problems and it's a solid engine.

What do you have done to your 400 that makes is so unreliable and more powerful than a stock 450? 450's are a definite big improvement over an air-cooled 400. I think you'd be fairly impressed with just a piped 450 as far as power goes - especially if you don't need something that fast like you stated before.

well just using the 450r as an example. but yes, yamaha seems to have all the bugs figured out. but the Kaw and KTM are yet to be proven. and teh Zuki is like teh Z, timing chains and valves.

if i got a 450, most likely it would be a yfz.

my 400 has mods in sig. it is just getting to that age where stuff is all failing at once. the motor had 0 problems for the first three years i had the bike, but now it is one thing after another. and yes, it will easily beat a stock 450, as well as a piped one. for power, it is comparable to a piped 450.

[mudrunner35]

Originally posted by underpowered
well just using the 450r as an example. but yes, yamaha seems to have all the bugs figured out. but the Kaw and KTM are yet to be proven. and teh Zuki is like teh Z, timing chains and valves.

if i got a 450, most likely it would be a yfz.

my 400 has mods in sig. it is just getting to that age where stuff is all failing at once. the motor had 0 problems for the first three years i had the bike, but now it is one thing after another. and yes, it will easily beat a stock 450, as well as a piped one. for power, it is comparable to a piped 450.

i would say go with a 450 because power can easily be brought up to snuff. even though a stock 450 isn't faster then your ex, it may feel faster because of the suspension and it has different frame geometry so that also helps

[underpowered]

Originally posted by mudrunner35
i would say go with a 450 because power can easily be brought up to snuff. even though a stock 450 isn't faster then your ex, it may feel faster because of the suspension and it has different frame geometry so that also helps

well yeah a 450 would be more on power and still allow me to keep my speed. idk, if i buy brand new i will get a 400, but i may be able to come across a deal on a 450 somewhere.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by underpowered
well just using the 450r as an example. but yes, yamaha seems to have all the bugs figured out. but the Kaw and KTM are yet to be proven. and teh Zuki is like teh Z, timing chains and valves.

if i got a 450, most likely it would be a yfz.

my 400 has mods in sig. it is just getting to that age where stuff is all failing at once. the motor had 0 problems for the first three years i had the bike, but now it is one thing after another. and yes, it will easily beat a stock 450, as well as a piped one. for power, it is comparable to a piped 450.

Didn't know the LTR had a problem with timing chains and valves. Didn't even know the Z400 had a problem with those.

As for your sig, I can't see it.

[CDCHONDAS]

I really think your view on these problems is wacked, this is not every single quad they sell coming back, it might be 1 in ten. by the way, lets see 400ex oh so reliable but what are their common problems? well timing chain stretches, cam chain tensioners fail, overbores get prone to blown headgaskets, rusted tight swingarm bolts, theres some bolts in the top end that are real common to seize and snap, 400ex i consider reliable but they have problems, head and heels more reliable than a 450, no, not in my neighborhood, you will learn that when you get on these boards one small rumor turns into the gospel, pay attention to what you see with your own eyes and compare it on the grand scale of things, would I not buy a ltr because you say the cam chain is a weak link, heck no, if i wanted one I would get it, why, because its not something I worry about, I tell you what if these problems are such big issues hondas dirtbike line would have died a few years ago with the "big" ti valve problem. believe me, not everyone put ss valves in and are ok.

[underpowered]

Originally posted by CDCHONDAS
I really think your view on these problems is wacked, this is not every single quad they sell coming back, it might be 1 in ten. by the way, lets see 400ex oh so reliable but what are their common problems? well timing chain stretches, cam chain tensioners fail, overbores get prone to blown headgaskets, rusted tight swingarm bolts, theres some bolts in the top end that are real common to seize and snap, 400ex i consider reliable but they have problems, head and heels more reliable than a 450, no, not in my neighborhood, you will learn that when you get on these boards one small rumor turns into the gospel, pay attention to what you see with your own eyes and compare it on the grand scale of things, would I not buy a ltr because you say the cam chain is a weak link, heck no, if i wanted one I would get it, why, because its not something I worry about, I tell you what if these problems are such big issues hondas dirtbike line would have died a few years ago with the "big" ti valve problem. believe me, not everyone put ss valves in and are ok.

i have been around these board more than long enough (longer than you actually). i have been around quads all my life, and i know they all have problems. most of my info for reliability comes from the local cycle shop that i work at. talking to customers, lookign at bikes that go through the service dept., jsut doing my research. but like i said, whatever i get i will leave mainly stock. when they are maintained properly the 400ex has few problems. not problem free, but very few. if people greased there swingarm bolts they would not seize. i have never had my bolt freeze on my quad, but i regularly grease it. and only replace my timing chain once, not bad for an 8 year old bike. i know no bike will be perfect, they all have their problems. jsut trying to decide which i will be happier with. i know the weak links on teh 400, how to fix them. the 450's are a new animal to me and would have to learn as i go with them.



and for toadz, here is my sig

2000 426EX, 11:1 wiseco, hot cams stage 3 "stroker" cam, Ported head done by Dr. G, FCR 41, Hot rods crank, running no base gasket, 1 layer of a 3 layer head gasket, klotz 113 octane race fuel, Feather carbon smoothie hood, works tripples w/ressies, Black HMF slip on, AC pro peg nerfs, Azonic fat bars, burgaurd +1 1/4" swinger, Lonestar +1 stem, douglas yellow label front wheels, Pro Armor front bumper, + some others goodies

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by underpowered
and for toadz, here is my sig

2000 426EX, 11:1 wiseco, hot cams stage 3 "stroker" cam, Ported head done by Dr. G, FCR 41, Hot rods crank, running no base gasket, 1 layer of a 3 layer head gasket, klotz 113 octane race fuel, Feather carbon smoothie hood, works tripples w/ressies, Black HMF slip on, AC pro peg nerfs, Azonic fat bars, burgaurd +1 1/4" swinger, Lonestar +1 stem, douglas yellow label front wheels, Pro Armor front bumper, + some others goodies

Thanks, I have all sigs turned off because of the ridiculously large ones that take forever for a page to load because of them.

I'm confused though, is your EX bored or stroked over to a 426? Have you thought about possibly returning it more to stock condition? Unless that power is a huge deal to you (which it sounds like it's really not?) then you should go with a 450.

Keep your eyes out for a good deal on a YFZ. They're awesome quads and mine has been great to me *knock on wood*. If you're going with a 450 I would go with whichever one is more comfortable for you though. Some people find the YFZ more cramped than others. I got a YFZ because I felt more comfortable on it than a 450R and I loved the power delivery.

[underpowered]

it is bored to a 426, the cam is a hot cams stage three, dubbed the stroker cam.

power is a concern as i do not want to go back to like a stock 400, but it is not my main concern. a stock 450 with a pipe would be pretty good for power.

and so far the YFZ looks to be what i would get. i like the power of them, how they handle and i felt comforable on them. i didn't like the 450 that much really. to top heavy and tippy. great for wheelies though lol. the LTR is to wide for my uses adn not what they are cracked up to be IMHO. have not rode a kawi yet though. i like the YFZ best of all of them i have ridden.

[GPracer2500]

What about a Raptor 700?

[underpowered]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
What about a Raptor 700?

never thought about one. never liked the raptors. have not rode the 700 yet, but did not like teh 660 at all.

also, for the few races i do a yeat, a bike like that would instantly put me in the open class, not where i want to be especially on a stock-ish bike. i may give them a look, but they are not really what i was looking at.

[GPracer2500]

No worries....just a suggestion.

Just know that the Rap700 is significantly different than the Rap660. I wouldn't base any opinion of the 700 off of what you think of 660's.

I don't really care for the look of the 700's (or the 660's for that matter)--YFZ's take 1st place in that category--but the 700's are fast, in my experience reliable, and handle well. Maintenance is easy too with their screw tappet valve lash adjusters (similar to a 400EX)--no shims or cam removal needed for adjustments.

For me, I'd like a YFZ. But the Rap700 is hard to dismiss. Their engine is so flexible with such fat torque, it makes them really easy to ride fast. And make no mistake, they are fast. Generally speaking, they're only a 1/2 step behind a YFZ. But in my experience, it's easier to get everything out of a Rap700 then a YFZ. So in the real world, it's frequently a wash as far as which is "faster". Rap700's don't ask much from you for what they deliver. I think that makes them outstanding sport trail/dune quads. You're never in the wrong gear and they just do what they're told with no fuss. You can even leave them showroom stock and they're still great.

Just food for thought.

[underpowered]

thanks alot GP. i may see if i can get ahold of one to test ride a bit. it is worth a try. i am open to suggestions on anything. and to date, we have not worked on a 700 in the shop yet so i guess thats a good thing

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
No worries....just a suggestion.

Just know that the Rap700 is significantly different than the Rap660. I wouldn't base any opinion of the 700 off of what you think of 660's.

I don't really care for the look of the 700's (or the 660's for that matter)--YFZ's take 1st place in that category--but the 700's are fast, in my experience reliable, and handle well. Maintenance is easy too with their screw tappet valve lash adjusters (similar to a 400EX)--no shims or cam removal needed for adjustments.

For me, I'd like a YFZ. But the Rap700 is hard to dismiss. Their engine is so flexible with such fat torque, it makes them really easy to ride fast. And make no mistake, they are fast. Generally speaking, they're only a 1/2 step behind a YFZ. But in my experience, it's easier to get everything out of a Rap700 then a YFZ. So in the real world, it's frequently a wash as far as which is "faster". Rap700's don't ask much from you for what they deliver. I think that makes them outstanding sport trail/dune quads. You're never in the wrong gear and they just do what they're told with no fuss. You can even leave them showroom stock and they're still great.

Just food for thought.

I didn't even think about a Raptor 700...that'd probably be my choice besides an Outlaw or KTM's XC with IRS. I have yet to ride a 700 yet but have not heard of any major problems besides a fuel pump which was recalled and taken care of by Yamaha. They definitely sit differently than the 660 and feel like they'd be more stable. If the power is anything like the 660 was I definitely wouldn't be disappointed!

[underpowered]

i may also have to check out the nex 700xx. could be the first on my block to own one.

i may check them out, but the YFZ is still in teh lead for my new quad unless i ride a different quad and fall in love lol

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by underpowered
i may also have to check out the nex 700xx. could be the first on my block to own one.

i may check them out, but the YFZ is still in teh lead for my new quad unless i ride a different quad and fall in love lol

After seeing the 700xx I doubt I'd ever look to Honda again for anything...haha, at least in looks department!

[450rJam]

you want more reliability than you have, and the 400 you have is more than you need, but you want a 450 with a few mods and want it to be as reliable as a stock 400ex ?

I dont think they make that atv yet.....................

not much out there more reliable than the mild built 400ex

sounds like you just need to de-tune the 400 you have to a point of reliability.

[underpowered]

Originally posted by 450rJam
you want more reliability than you have, and the 400 you have is more than you need, but you want a 450 with a few mods and want it to be as reliable as a stock 400ex ?

I dont think they make that atv yet.....................

not much out there more reliable than the mild built 400ex

sounds like you just need to de-tune the 400 you have to a point of reliability.

not neccesarily the reliablity of a stock 400ex, just alot more reliable than my current one. and to detune my current one it would be as cost effective to sell it and start over.

and if i get a 450, a pipe will be all it will get, unless it is a YFZ then it will get the cam mod as well. but i don't plan on going internal mods on any quad i get.

i don't need a built quad like i have now since i don't race a series, only a few select ones a year.

[Toadz400]

Why don't you buy my YFZ?:D $3500

[underpowered]

two things stopping me
1 no money to do so till i unload my quad
2 wisconsin is a bit of a haul from here lol

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by underpowered
two things stopping me
1 no money to do so till i unload my quad
2 wisconsin is a bit of a haul from here lol

There's always meeting halfway. I got my 400EX from Indiana.

I have the same problem, no money and a lot of bills.

[underpowered]

Originally posted by Toadz400
There's always meeting halfway. I got my 400EX from Indiana.

I have the same problem, no money and a lot of bills.

yeah i sold my last truck to a kid in illinois, met him half way.

yeah, i can only afford to do one thing at a time.