atva mx womens class is all but gone [Archive]

RG #43

12-19-2011, 01:48 PM

Hmmm, lets see, Why were the turnouts low in Women's Pro am class. Could it possibly be that most were competing for 3rd place or lower?

That is was a class with production rules

Was it possibly because for god forsaken reason, they chose to race both moto's on Sat leaving very little opportunity to race other classes in addition as many were back to back?

Was it possibly because they ran 6 laps or more?

For me, the last 2 possible options really blew. In order to race another class I basically had to sacrifice in one. I remember pulling of the track in Women's Pro Am to pull into staging for +30A/B for qualifier 1. They only took 8 to the main, so I had to haul boogie to make the main. That meant saving some in the tank while racing Women's.

I also remember sitting on the line at Millville and the stager called out 8 laps. Me and 2 of the other girls had a little protest on the line at that and got it dropped to 6 I think.

Now we go to the opposite end of the spectrum, a good possibility of laping half the field. I guarantee a good number of girls would have moved up with the top 2 in Pro am retiring. There needs to be a distinction between the skill levels, but make it A & B/C not this Pro Am malarky. No one wants to go to a National and get lapped by half the field!

Not to insult anyone at all but as they have it for 2012, Women's class is no longer any different than any district in terms of classification. If it remains, I will move to other classes and skip the women's class entirely. I don't need to drive halfway across the country to lap my own daughter.
Just my 2cents as an Women's A/Pro Am and whatever they chose to call it at the time since 2005

bracey

12-19-2011, 03:12 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RG #43
[B]Hmmm, lets see, Why were the turnouts low in Women's Pro am class. Could it possibly be that most were competing for 3rd place or lower?

We would not go if all we did was lap the field. I dont know how that could be fun for anyone. Trying to win has been what kept us racing as long as we have. The challenge is what a competitor drives all miles in search of. And i agree with you on the classes offered .
where do the entry level women go now? I think womens mx quad racing would benefit from having 3 classes.

The first class could be for the entry level women where they could have a safe platform to try out mx at a national level

the second class could be for the more experienced women racers could compete without the fear of having the beginner level racer on the track or the elite racer on the track with them

And then the third class could be for those women racers who only want the most advanced racers on the track with them (THEY HAVE SAID ON NUMEROUS TIMES THAT THEY ONLY FEEL COMFORTABLE RACING AGAINST EACH OTHER) so that way they can race each other

If you look back over the years of the women that have moved up to that class most all of them have quit . ......................... And i think with all the drama in that class ..................I KNOW WHY

RG #43

12-19-2011, 06:12 PM

I don't have an issue with racing against other people as long as the skill levels are somewhat simular. I race open class at some local events and its mixed bag of nut. Sometimes you hang back to let the crazies take themselves out. At a National level you hope that you are going to be competing against those that are at the same level. You shouldn't have to worry about that unless you enter the wrong classification yourself.

I encourage anyone that races these classes that feel this is not a wise route to take this class in the future to write or call the AMA ATVA and voice your concerns. You can't in one breath split the 90 mod and girls class citing a safe platform to compete and progress, and then lump everyone else together after that. Where is the progression in that?

There is nothing wrong with double gate drops to keep 2 classes on the track.

jandjracing

12-19-2011, 08:10 PM

I remember seeing Smitty rushing around making notes and such and talking/arguing to the Women in the Pro Am class. Anyone know what that was all about and if it is the reason the class more less went away?

bracey

12-19-2011, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by jandjracing
I remember seeing Smitty rushing around making notes and such and talking/arguing to the Women in the Pro Am class. Anyone know what that was all about and if it is the reason the class more less went away?

smitty did that a few times

in walnut he had a special meeting just for the pro am womens class and made a few special rules that only applied to the pro-am womens .....but i must say after the meeting he even said it was bullcrap....... but they was crying to the right people ...so he was just doing what he was told

or it could have been at bill ballances when they interviewed one of the (ELITE WOMEN) and she made some horrible statements about a fellow rider in the pro-am womens class ...only after she was seen yelling at the same women that she was talking about in the interveiw that was over the loud speaker ..for the whole track to here

no one could beleive what she was saying............ soon after that the rider that was being talked about only made 2 more races after ballances

jandjracing

12-19-2011, 08:50 PM

What a joke with special rules needing to be made for the ones who whine at a national event. Sounds like a 50cc kids class. What kind of message does that send to the local districts and events? Hopefully the one class left will grow with less B1TCHING there.

400grl

12-20-2011, 09:36 AM

Why not just go race the men's classes? I never had a women's class to race in until the ITP Quadcross, and even then alot of us girls would double-class and do both women's and men's classes. Competition is competition.....racing with the guys teaches you to race aggressively and toughen up - I don't see either of those things as a bad thing. Leave the drama to the girls and get back to the basics......racing! ;)

440racer66

12-20-2011, 09:45 AM

beastlywarrior

12-20-2011, 10:21 AM

I think just run regular pro am

bracey

12-20-2011, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by 400grl
Why not just go race the men's classes? I never had a women's class to race in until the ITP Quadcross, and even then alot of us girls would double-class and do both women's and men's classes. Competition is competition.....racing with the guys teaches you to race aggressively and toughen up - I don't see either of those things as a bad thing. Leave the drama to the girls and get back to the basics......racing! ;)

We always did run the mens classes at the nationals and love it but we dont have to leave home to do that ....we have plenty of mens classes around here to run ...i dont think no local track has enough for a womens class anywhere

Thats not the point here if we are trying to build the sport ....what they are doing is not going to do that ....grouping all the women together ..if you look at how many young ladys are comming up .(more now then ever).at this rate they will only have the mens classes to run

And i agree about the running the mens classes will teach you to race aggressively and toughen you up

We done it ever since 04... racing should be the same mens or womens class ..(NO SPECIAL RULES THAT ONLY APPLY ONLY TO THE WOMENS CLASS)..what the men call great racing ....the top women call dirty riding (unless they do it) and then cry about

What it all boils downs to is..... things are all fine untill they get a little competition ..and then out comes the girly girl in them and the complaining .... and that really sucked the fun out of racing the womens class .....in my opinion that class is only going to get worse untill the cry babies and trouble makers are gone .......their are a few in that class that are as phoney and fake as a person can be .........

We never had a problem with them untill we started running that class and running up front with them

If you cant see what is causing the numbers to decline in the womens class

YOU MUST HAVE YOUR EYES CLOSED

guy310

12-20-2011, 10:49 PM

I have to say that I understand both sides of the argument but I have to agree with whoever said that you still need 2 or 3 womens classes to continue to grow the sport. Everybody can be tough and say all they want about how racing with the guys makes you faster/tougher/more agressive and that is true, however nature being what it is women are not on the same playing field physically as men. It is a biological fact that men are just physically stronger. These quads weigh a lot and let's be realistic, no amount of racing with the guys is going to get any of the women I saw at Nationals this year up to the same speed as Chad or John. Imagine if we applied that same argument to other sports such as football or boxing. How do you think that would turn out? I don't think we should discourage women from competing against men because competing against the best always steps up your game, I just don't want to limit opportunities for women and young girls to compete against each other and really shine. Doing well does wonders for confidence especially in young women.

guy310

12-20-2011, 10:55 PM

I also have to add that the absence of women's classes in the past doesn't make it right to exclude them now. 400grl I understand you didn't have womens classes back in the day but the west is a bit different than the east. Not to take anything away from anyone out west but when you have a higher percentage of racers in an area it tends to raise the level of competition and gives you a larger pool of possible good competitiors. For example, if you have a high school of 100 kids what are the chances of having a really good or even great racer? The possibility of that being true increases greatly if the high school has 1000 kids or even 5000 kids. The larger the pond the bigger the fish is a pretty true rule of thumb. There are a ton of kids who are studs in their local district that go to Nationals only to find out they aren't quite as fast as they thought they were.

400grl

12-21-2011, 08:54 AM

Oh, I'm not saying don't have a women's class - I agree with you on all points. I was just suggesting that if one doesn't want to be lumped in with one class of girls with all different skill sets, that there are always the guys classes to race in.

I don't know why they are putting all of the girls in one class, other than maybe they figure it's not worth the time to run seperate women's classes when only a few show up for one of them? Split gates seems to solve that problem, however......so IMO they should keep the classes and just stagger the starts.

rageatvsupermom

12-21-2011, 10:56 AM

I am all about the girls racing, I have a daughter that races as well so I do hate to see these classes disappear. There have been a few things the last couple of years to hurt. One was when it was a pro-am class with a payout, someone felt that was not fair that their daughter had to race A class at home, he felt that it should be changed. So we went from a payout back to trophies, but still had to race 5 laps and on Saturday. Personally did not make sense to me. The women who had been racing for years and trying to make a career out of it hurt them because a girl who wanted to race them but could not deal with the consequences.
We can't have it both ways, either you have a Top class or you don't.

This past year was a destruction derby in the Women's class, there was more contact than the men's Pro class. There were a few things that were just
petty but it seemed the rules applied to all but a couple, that is why we chose not to complete the series. I felt the safety of my daughter was more important, she felt the fun was gone and would rather race with the guys. So you know it must have been pretty bad in the drama department and the rubbing department as well.

I don't know what the solution is but glad I am not going to be involved in the drama and pettiness that goes on in the Women's racing this year.

bracey

12-21-2011, 11:25 AM

i can see why the women should not race the top level mens class at a local event..... its dangerous when they are not up to the mens speed

And if the class was labled pro-am then the women would have to run at least the A class everywhere..... if you wanted to run a second class at a national and be competitive you would be S-O-L

And none of the women will jump all the jumps that the men will in A class . they would only be in danger and in the way in the mens A class in most local areas

If you take the top women from that class their lap times would not win a b-class at the nationals and they dont jump all the jumps that the b-riders do ...ive even seen the supermini riders at the nationals jump things that the top women would not

And as far a a career in atv racing i dont think anyone can call atv racing a career .(BUT A SMALL HANDFULL)...to me dirt bike racing could be a career .....ATV racing is a hobby ...

Again this is my opinion

We also quit running that class because of all the dangerous rubbing and all the drama

And your also right 2 of the women that raced that class could do anything they wanted....... it seemed they were above the rules

400grl

12-21-2011, 12:09 PM

That's too bad.....it sounds like the class was pretty much ruined by how it was managed and who was in it.

I wish you guys the best.....I race short-course now, but I still like to see you ATV racers do well!

bracey

12-21-2011, 12:54 PM

also when the atva changed that tittle from PRO-AM WOMENS to just womens class ...that also was to help that class build from progression

because while it had the lable PRO-AM WOMENS the atva could not make the top three from the previous year in the womens c class move up

So when they changed it to just womens .....then the atva could make previous years top 3 women move up to the womens class

So that should have made both classes build by allowing room for the entry level women to come in to that class and by send 3 new women a each year to the top womens class

But the atva did not give it much of a chance to build only 1 year

the problem with the womens class not having great turnouts is not the current class structure

Its the way they way atva let the class be ran by the polictics and the big names of the sport ...........obviously a big mistake

rageatvsupermom

12-21-2011, 02:06 PM

I disagree, my daughter has been racing A class here for about 6 years so I did not have a problem with it. You can't have it both ways. Personally I don't believe the one women's class should be a C class anyway, most of those girls are coming off mini's so they are not beginners.

I don't see a big deal with what they have now, once the numbers are there for two classes then I am sure they will
make another class. As it stands there were only 3 races where there were 20
women total.

My daughter has been racing the nationals since 2007 and has not had
the constant rubbing and dirty racing until this year, it was sad to say that for some people to think it is ok. To run people off the track or to cross jump or to spend the entire race looking behind you is again sad. Again, glad we won't be involved with the women'sracing this year.

guy310

12-21-2011, 03:01 PM

I thought the split class was a great thing it gave the younger girls something to aspire to. Just because some of them were coming off mini's does not mean they aren't beginners. I know plenty of riders boys and girls and men and women who have been riding for years that still ride at a beginner level. One of the biggest problems that the ATVA has is with rider classifcations and the abuse of such. I watched a few kids dominate the C classes that could ride with most B and some A riders locally when they were on a CVT. If you get to the first one or two nationals and you have a kid lapping most of the C class and running top 5 B class lap times, someone has to step in and do something. Also, for women going from a CVT to a 450 is a big jump so I agreed with the offering of a C class. If you can do it for the 30+ class, you can do it for the women. You are surely not going to get any growth for the sport from the 30+ class but you certainly could from the womens class.

rageatvsupermom

12-21-2011, 03:48 PM

Well, I see it differently why go from a CVT to a 450, there are two classes they can race before racing a 450, the Schoolboy Jr. and Sr. If the girls were racing with the boys in the mini's why not go to the 300ex and then the 450? If there are not enough numbers to have 2 women's classes then I understand the logic to make one class.

bracey

12-21-2011, 04:06 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
[B]I disagree, my daughter has been racing A class here for about 6 years so I did not have a problem with it. You can't have it both ways. Personally I don't believe the one women's class should be a C class anyway, most of those girls are coming off mini's so they are not beginners.

well all i can say to that is i guess your A riders from your area

are not near as fast as the A riders in our area it is that simple

And if you been racing since 07 then you know that NONE OF THE WOMEN THAT HAVE OR ARE RACING THE WOMENS PRO-AM CLASS CAN NOT COMPETE SAFELY IN ANY OF THE MENS A CLASSES OR PRO-AM CLASSES AT ANY OF THE NATIONALS

and what do you mean when you say that we cant have it both ways .....what are you talking about

and as for the atva calling the womens class womens c what does the tittle have anything to do with it ....they could call it womens entry class

i have seen a lot of youth riders on minis that can klick of as good of times as the womens class

and then seen that same kid get on a 450cc quad and run slower times then they ran on a mini quad ....because they was not comfortable with that much power and weight

bracey

12-21-2011, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
Well, I see it differently why go from a CVT to a 450, there are two classes they can race before racing a 450, the Schoolboy Jr. and Sr. If the girls were racing with the boys in the mini's why not go to the 300ex and then the 450? If there are not enough numbers to have 2 women's classes then I understand the logic to make one class.

the atva never gave the current class structure any time to work

like i said in my earlier post with last years (2011) class structure it was set up to build both classes

1st .........the top 3 of the womens c class was forced to move up to the womens class

2cd .....that would allow the womens class to get 3 new riders a year

3rd ..........that would open the door in the womens c class to have a place for new winners each year

4th ........that way the top womens c class winners cant stay there and win year after year

5th .........who wants to show up at their first national and get lapped by the advanced women.....they prob wont come back

so it looks like to me that if they gave those classes time to build they prob would

rageatvsupermom

12-21-2011, 04:46 PM

I guess you are right the riders here must be slow...if a girl can race with them. What I meant by you can't have it both ways....you can't have an elite class and limit them to only b class, and then expect the c riders to ride with them as well. You can't have a money class and then go race the C class at home....or rather you shouldn't.

The women's class by my calculation lost 4 if not 5 riders, so if you bring the top 3 from women's C then you still have what maybe 4, the class has been getting smaller every year. Race the one class and build it up then have another one.

bracey

12-21-2011, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
I guess you are right the riders here must be slow...if a girl can race with them. What I meant by you can't have it both ways....you can't have an elite class and limit them to only b class, and then expect the c riders to ride with them as well. You can't have a money class and then go race the C class at home....or rather you shouldn't.

The women's class by my calculation lost 4 if not 5 riders, so if you bring the top 3 from women's C then you still have what maybe 4, the class has been getting smaller every year. Race the one class and build it up then have another one.

we dont want to be paid for racing in the womens class

you might we dont

all we want to do is go to the nationals and race a class that we fit in ......and not be stuck in the wrong class when we go back home where we live and race all the time

and by the tittle pro-am women we was stuck in the wrong class back home

with the tittle just women that allows every rider the choice to run the class they best fit in back home
pro
pro-am
A class
B class
C class

and the womens class are not limited to running the b class with the tittle only being women that allows any women in that class to run whatever class they want or fit in to

but dont you see with the tittle PRO-AM WOMENS being lifted that only give the women more freedom to run back home what ever class they fit into locally or at the nationals if they want to run A mens class they can or a mens c class or b class

bracey

12-21-2011, 05:07 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
[B]I guess you are right the riders here must be slow...if a girl can race with them.

again you missed the point....... its a fact that no women will jump what the men will and just cant run with the top mens class

i looked up the womens lap times from 2011 and no women can run in the top mens classes...... most women only manage to run bottom half of the feild and some slower lap times then even 20th place

they fit closer to the mens b class lap times

bracey

12-21-2011, 05:13 PM

The women's class by my calculation lost 4 if not 5 riders, so if you bring the top 3 from women's C then you still have what maybe 4, the class has been getting smaller every year. Race the one class and build it up then have another one. [/B][/QUOTE]

thats just my point the class now has a chance to build .....some of the women quit that class like you said in your earlier post

from drama
and safety

so we know we had 3 coming up and with the 2 top women leaving maybe that will bring others back

and you said it in your earlier post that you cant have elite women racing b or c women....... so why only make 1 class

bracey

12-21-2011, 05:16 PM

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rageatvsupermom ...you can't have an elite class and limit them to only b class, and then expect the c riders to ride with them as well. You can't have a money class and then go race the C class at home....or rather you shouldn't.

looks like to me your making my point ^^^^^^^^^^^

guy310

12-21-2011, 05:45 PM

Well not everybody can afford many big money machines in between CVTs and 450's. And by that same logic, I noticed some of the A classes were not well attended this year at nationals, Should we eliminate Open A and just have an Open A,B,and C together? They make many concessions for every other class I just don't see why you can't have 2 womens classes. If the girls and women have nothing to apsire to then they won"t aspire to anything.

jandjracing

12-21-2011, 08:19 PM

From what I've seen, the womens Pro Am class seems catty with little respect shown for fellow riders. Confidence and arrogance are supposed to be two different attributes, but most of the Pro womens podium interviews were a combination of both. I think that class would have grown if the leaders would have focussed on leading instead of sending pix of themselves.

guy310

12-21-2011, 09:46 PM

I agree jandj I just wish they wouldn't punish the many for the sins of the few. I have a 15 year old daughter who raced in the Womens C last year at Walnut and Redbud. Her goal was to be a Womens C champ someday and the Womens A champ someday. She didn't idolize or look up to the primadonna few in the top class but her fellow competitors in her class that were at the front of the C class. Thats who she wanted to be like and race like.

madskrillz2

12-21-2011, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by bracey
[QUOTE][i]And if you been racing since 07 then you know that NONE OF THE WOMEN THAT HAVE OR ARE RACING THE WOMENS PRO-AM CLASS CAN NOT COMPETE SAFELY IN ANY OF THE MENS A CLASSES OR PRO-AM CLASSES AT ANY OF THE NATIONALS

How would you know that? I know Angela Butler used to run one of the A classes when she still raced nationals and finish pretty high up.

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 12:28 AM

For starters, Angela Moore/Butler was one of, if not the best Women's racer ever. She competed in the Women's class and 16/24 to the A class, against the guys. She was fearless, jumped anything and had confidence to compete against guys. Some of the top guys.

Before Angela came along, Heather Rose/Byrd was the dominant one in the Women's class. But once Angela came to the nationals, things shifted. Now, year by year Heather got better and better. Before you know it, Angela and Heather were truly competing for the Women's title. While Michelle Reiser/Natalie sat in 3rd.

When Angela stopped racing the nationals it was now Heather winning, Michelle in 2nd, then 3rd was up for grabs. Over the years, Michelle has also stepped up her skills and started beating and giving Heather a true challenge.

The point in me saying all of that was; one, if a female racer is determined and confidence enough, she can and has raced against the best guys. Two, with time, any female racer can grow to the level they need and want, if they want to compete against the best female racers in the nation.

6 laps. If you can't handle that, knowing that's what they require, then don't race that class. Granted, they stepped the laps up when money got involved. Once the money went away, they should've restructured that class. But, it is what it is.

You all keep saying "they" but let's face it, you all mean Heather and Michelle. Now I wasn't at all the nationals so I can't say I know what everyone is talking about. But I can say that those two deserve some respect. They've been racing that class for along time now. Maybe it was complaining or maybe they were trying to make changes to better that class for the particular race.

Derby racing. Now, the beginning of the season, stuff was out of hand. Girls were making stupid decisions and hurting those around them. Not respecting each other. What the top women need to do is stop being so emotional and respect each other. Because without each other there is no future for Women's racing. Which is truly why the top Women's class has died. There is no future in it.

bracey

12-22-2011, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by madskrillz2
How would you know that? I know Angela Butler used to run one of the A classes when she still raced nationals and finish pretty high up.

Well the best that i could find from 07 was the lasy year that she ran most of the series and won 7 rounds of the pro-am womens races .....in 07 she never ran any mens A class at the nationals that i could find

And then in 08 she ran 1 pro-am race womens that she finished 3rd at but again never ran any mens A class that i could find .......and thats how i know that

But yes i do know that she ran some mens A class and did very well in ..which must have been before 07 (at least at the nationals)

But 1 women that could of pulled off racing the mens A class in the whole history of womens atv racing .should not be the measuring stick in which the future women in the class should be held to

And the proof is in the lap times and watching the top women roll most all the big jumps at the nationals

bracey

12-22-2011, 01:18 AM

They might as you say deserve respect ..
but if they dont show respect to others they soon will lose any respect that they have earned

I will share a little story will you about them giving respect to the other womens racers

in 2010 at round 9 in NEW YORK during fridays practice 1 of the 2 top women took her quad a ran a fellow women racer off the track and i mean way off the track on purpose

So after that round of practice the mother of the racer and the racer that was ran off the track ...went over to the pit of the top women rider and asked ....if their was somthing that she did to make her mad and if their was she didnt mean to and was going to say sorry

the husband of the women racer said that he told his wife to run into her and if she didnt get out of her way that she was to (TAKE HER OUT) and that is a quote of what he said .

He said thats just how it is and that they needed to just deal with it ..that the way he rides and thats the way he has taught his wife to ride ...and all of this was said around others and was said in a very cocky and rude way

When the mother of the rider that was ran into said that they could not beleive that someone would put his wife or a fellow rider in danger and was going to tell this to Smitty the husband said tell him he cant do nothing to him or his wife

and i will leave out was said between the 2 men....but i will say this..... the cocky rude way that he talked to the mother and the daughter stopped and was replaced with apologies from both the wife and husband

And i dont know of any father/husband of any women/child that would hear that someone was trying to hurt their loved ones and not do the same thing

we have seen some very serious wrecks even deaths .....there is no good reason to try to take someone out

now hows that for they deserve respect

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 01:30 AM

If all you got from my reply was that "we" need to respect Heather and Michelle. Then you need to reread my reply. I stated that they do deserve some respect. But at the end of the day, that entire class of females need to respect each other. With that being said, I do not agree with what this certain female racer did to another. If she just deliberately pushed this rider off the track for no real reason, then that is wrong. But if the rider that was pushed off the track did something to deserve it. Then you get what you deserve. Nobody out there is any better as a human being then the next. Just because you can ride a quad better then someone else doesn't give you the right to talk down to people. "Do onto others as you'd want done onto you."

madskrillz2

12-22-2011, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by bracey
They might as you say deserve respect ..
but if they dont show respect to others they soon will lose any respect that they have earned

I will share a little story will you about them giving respect to the other womens racers

in 2010 at round 9 in NEW YORK during fridays practice 1 of the 2 top women took her quad a ran a fellow women racer off the track and i mean way off the track on purpose

So after that round of practice the mother of the racer and the racer that was ran off the track ...went over to the pit of the top women rider and asked ....if their was somthing that she did to make her mad and if their was she didnt mean to and was going to say sorry

the husband of the women racer said that he told his wife to run into her and if she didnt get out of her way that she was to (TAKE HER OUT) and that is a quote of what he said .

He said thats just how it is and that they needed to just deal with it ..that the way he rides and thats the way he has taught his wife to ride ...and all of this was said around others and was said in a very cocky and rude way

When the mother of the rider that was ran into said that they could not beleive that someone would put his wife or a fellow rider in danger and was going to tell this to Smitty the husband said tell him he cant do nothing to him or his wife

and i will leave out was said between the 2 men....but i will say this..... the cocky rude way that he talked to the mother and the daughter stopped and was replaced with apologies from both the wife and husband

And i dont know of any father/husband of any women/child that would hear that someone was trying to hurt their loved ones and not do the same thing

we have seen some very serious wrecks even deaths .....there is no good reason to try to take someone out

now where was the respect at there

I didn't read through all the stuff you posted to catch the "respect" issue. I just caught the other part I elaborated on. But you are right, that is just low down. I would almost bet money I know exactly who it was without you even saying. Sorry to hear that happened

bracey

12-22-2011, 01:33 AM

nothing deserves any rider to run into another rider period

you may need to reread my post ....yes she ran her off the track deliberately ..and was told to by her husband (IN HIS WORDS WAS TAKE HER OUT)

and the reason was in my post also ..she thought that she was in her way during practice WOW

bracey

12-22-2011, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by madskrillz2
I didn't read through all the stuff you posted to catch the "respect" issue. I just caught the other part I elaborated on. But you are right, that is just low down. I would almost bet money I know exactly who it was without you even saying. Sorry to hear that happened

THANK YOU ........and i bet everyone can guess who would talk like that to a mother and daughter

not many men talk to women the way he talked to them ........a real class act

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by bracey
nothing deserves any rider to run into another rider period

That is your opinion and you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree. And since I know you feel the way you do. We'll just go ahead and agree to disagree.

bracey

12-22-2011, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by JDMXKID
[

Derby racing. Now, the beginning of the season, stuff was out of hand. Girls were making stupid decisions and hurting those around them. Not respecting each other. [/B]

I GUESS YOU ALSO AGREE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU EARLIER POST

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 02:09 AM

Let me explain the difference.

If I was the rider that was pushed off the track at NY. Instead of just rolling over, I would've got right back on the track and did the exact same thing to that very rider. If they had a problem with it, then they should've stuck to the motto I said earlier. " Do onto others as you'd want done onto you." If you show no respect, you get no respect. Here in Fl we have fast riders. Quad and dirt bike. Just about every time I ride I have some ignorant dirt biker that thinks he's going to push, bump, or roost me. So I have to show him differently. He'll learn to respect me and my quad. Do you see how I use "rider?" It doesn't matter if your male or female.

Now onto what I said in my first post. There were certain girls making stupid decisions and hurting other girls. And eventually those girls that were being stupid, got a taste of their own medicine. And somewhat calmed down. I'm not promoting derby style racing here. But if we're going to be aggressive, then be prepared to get some aggression in return.

bracey

12-22-2011, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by JDMXKID
That is your opinion and you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree. And since I know you feel the way you do. We'll just go ahead and agree to disagree.

this is my favorite post from you .....lets just stick with it ok..... your to wishy washy for me ....your all over the board

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by bracey
this is my favorite post from you .....lets just stick with it ok..... your to wishy washy for me ....your all over the board

I do apologize if I come off as wishy washy. In my head it all makes perfect sense. But if it appears I'm all over the board, then let me simplify it. All I'm saying is, there needs to be respect in the Women's class. But if a certain rider can't show respect, then stick up for yourself.

bracey

12-22-2011, 03:07 AM

Originally posted by JDMXKID
I do apologize if I come off as wishy washy. In my head it all makes perfect sense. But if it appears I'm all over the board, then let me simplify it. All I'm saying is, there needs to be respect in the Women's class. But if a certain rider can't show respect, then stick up for yourself.

then where does that kind a mind set take us ...NOWHERE

sticking up for yourself is what i did to her husband OFF THE TRACK

Again the track is no place to take your quad and put others in danger PERIOD

And as far as this respect thing your talking about it was always there when the 2 top women had no competition

As soon as the 2 top women started to have to share the spotlight then all he-ll broke lose and respect went out the window

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 03:39 AM

Well here is where we are different, once again. You seem to handle things with words and conversation. Where I take action and make things happen. Unfortunately, with society we have to learn things the hard way. You can talk until your blue in the face, but until whoever gets a taste of their own medicine. They'll never understand or change. I can't speak for Heather or Michelle. I don't know how they feel about this topic. But I can say this, if you were to turn this topic into talking about males. Most would say, rubbing is racing.

guy310

12-22-2011, 07:24 AM

As far as Angela Moore goes, she was absolutely a mega talented female racer that did race some fast mens classes, however that was years ago. The A classes at Nationals are much faster from top to bottom now than they were 10 years ago when she could compete with the guys. In addition to that many of the tracks are different now than they were 10 years ago. At that time you had a few hundred riders beating up the track whereas now in some cases you could have 600 to 900 riders tearing the track up creating accelerating and braking bumps. We are back to the physical strength argument again where guys are able to wrestle the quad through a lot of the rough stuff a little easier than the women.

8686

12-22-2011, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by guy310
As far as Angela Moore goes, she was absolutely a mega talented female racer that did race some fast mens classes, however that was years ago. The A classes at Nationals are much faster from top to bottom now than they were 10 years ago when she could compete with the guys. In addition to that many of the tracks are different now than they were 10 years ago. At that time you had a few hundred riders beating up the track whereas now in some cases you could have 600 to 900 riders tearing the track up creating accelerating and braking bumps. We are back to the physical strength argument again where guys are able to wrestle the quad through a lot of the rough stuff a little easier than the women.

Lol. Hardly the case. First off, I don't think the A classes are any faster now than they were 10 years ago. They were fast then and are fast now. Secondly, there were probably more riders at the nationals 10 years ago than there were in recent years. Most classes at the nationals don't even fill a gate anymore. Some will recall all the qualifiers that had to be run in some of the classes just to get down to a 20 rider gate.

Sorry for the kind of off topic post, as it doesn't really pertain to the women's classes sort of stuff, but I just wanted to throw it out there. :)

fastredrider44

12-22-2011, 12:05 PM

All I got from reading this thread is that some people think racing against the clock is how it should be and no one else be on the track to potentially pose danger.

Running people off the track is uncalled for.

Rubbing is racing. That's never going to change, so you're going to have to deal with it.

TYPING IN ALL CAPS DOESN'T HELP ANYTHING.

People can agree to disagree. Get over it.

As far as the original topic goes, it's a money game. Why have more classes and more trophies when the numbers are down?

madskrillz2

12-22-2011, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by 8686
Lol. Hardly the case. First off, I don't think the A classes are any faster now than they were 10 years ago. They were fast then and are fast now. Secondly, there were probably more riders at the nationals 10 years ago than there were in recent years. Most classes at the nationals don't even fill a gate anymore. Some will recall all the qualifiers that had to be run in some of the classes just to get down to a 20 rider gate.

Sorry for the kind of off topic post, as it doesn't really pertain to the women's classes sort of stuff, but I just wanted to throw it out there. :)

Beat me to it

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 12:08 PM

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 12:11 PM

rageatvsupermom

12-22-2011, 01:09 PM

I am glad there are a few people who get what is being said without down talking or screaming in all caps. lol

1. Women's is not going backwards it is being downsized because of the turnouts.

2. Lap times do not mean anything, it is how you finish is what matters, I am so over the transponders they cause more trouble than they are worth.

3. You can't have the the women's class have the title of A and not have to race the A class locally. I don't care if you can't hack it...rules are the rules.

4. If there is only one class then the competition should be great, you should never complain about competition, but I guess some thought the class was going to be small and they would get an easy championship.

5. Just like in a previous post the riders are not getting slower, if anything people are getting faster because of better products and setup.

6. Jessica, you did a fine job with your explainations you don't need to apologize!

7. The dirty racing did not start until last year and got worse this year with a couple of new riders, again glad we won't be in that class. My daughter does not have a problem racing with the guys.

bracey

12-22-2011, 04:52 PM

i guess the caps are so YOU DONT MISS THE POINT

say what you want but when you combind the 2 classes you will lose riders ...way to many riding levels in the womens class

and nobody cares about a easy championship except someone who walks around with shirts made up

you can say all you would like but lap times can show facts (but it seems some of you dont want to know the facts)

and it seems to me that maybe since you (rageatvsupermom)
and (jdmxkid) see so eye to eye you might want to get on facebook ....because you 2 keep taking this post off topic

and i guess if you think that the dirty riding didnt start till last year .....that might be because no other women in years (since 07) ever got that close to the 2 (dont come within 4 quad lenghts of me) super women

up untill 2010 all the women would be evenly spaced out around the track old number 7 never lost a hole shot untill 2010

also rageatvsupermom why are you so worried about the tittle of the class does it make you sound better that your daughter rides in the PRO-AM or THE A-CLASS

RaceEcar191

12-22-2011, 05:12 PM

I completely agree RUBBING IS RACING. The "dirty racing " you are referring to that started last year is actually the competition that came last year. The 2 girls who were used to winning against each other, didn't like the competition last year brought, so they cried and said " she's too rough".

Answer me this, how many guys complained last year that his class was "too rough"? I bet zero to none. So since women's class isnt nothing but a title yr right, it shouldn't be held to a different standard. Guys rub, girl rub too. We are all in the same sport with the SAME RULES < the caps is to point out my point ;)

With the different womens class, an average women rider may participate in the class, promoting more riders because of the title changes. A girl who is a local b rider isn't going to be thrown in with a class called women's pro am, so most stayed out. Hence one of the many reasons the class fell off.

With the post about the pro am women taking a fellow rider out... I know exactly who yr talking about. Very out of line.. But I noticed the changes that came after yr family questioned them about it.

The women's class was nothing but drama last year, and I see why the "competition " left that class. And if you are who I think u are Bracey, it's not that ya wanted an easy win, bc I saw ya race in the men's b classes towards the end of the season.

bracey

12-22-2011, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by fastredrider44
All I got from reading this thread is that some people think racing against the clock is how it should be and no one else be on the track to potentially pose danger.

Running people off the track is uncalled for.

Rubbing is racing. That's never going to change, so you're going to have to deal with it.

TYPING IN ALL CAPS DOESN'T HELP ANYTHING.

People can agree to disagree. Get over it.

As far as the original topic goes, it's a money game. Why have more classes and more trophies when the numbers are down?

no one said racing the clock means anything except where you might fit in to a class ....lets face it the lap times or clock is the closet tool we have without being on the same gate (and again way off the topic

And i think everyone will agree that running into or running someone off the track is way out of line PERIOD

And yes people will always have a diffrent opinion thats life

And if you say that its a money game. which we all agree with .....then i answer your question MORE CLASSES EQUAL MORE MONEY ....THEY ADD MORE CLASSES LOOK AT THIS YEARS YOUNG GIRLS CLASS IT WAS JUST 1 CLASS THEY NOW HAVE 2 CLASSES AND THE 90 MOD NOW HAS 2 CLASSES .......when we started racing all 90cc raced together in 2 classes 90jr 90sr now look

And the girl only had 1 race of 20 or more
The same thing in the womens c they only had 1 race of 20 or more

AND TYPING IN CAPS IS DONE FOR PEOPLE WHO KEEP MISSING THE POINT OF THIS POST

imoto247

12-22-2011, 08:26 PM

Ok this shouldnt even of been a post. The person that started this thread (bracey) is just looking for more drama. Why would you even start a thread when you guys quit racing this year. It wasn't because of the drama. It was because you guys couldn't hack it. Your daughters couldn't be either one of the best. Why don't you not worry about the holeshot so much and worry about getting them in shape or giving them the controllable power. So they don't get tired in a lap. If you were so for this sport then why weren't you guys at the banquet this year for your award or have your older daughter at the banquet last year. This has no bearing on anything and isn't going to change. It's a great idea to have only one class. Then all the girls can say they race the best girls at nationals and there's no sandbagging or anything of that nature. It's just waste of time on Sat when you run the womens class for 6 laps when only 3 to 4 people are in it. We're not at a local, we're at a national. So by doing whats being done it will make the girls sport better. Now that the 2 veterans are retiring it will give some new girl the opportunity to do what number 7 did and win numerous championships. With this, maybe you'll even see double gate drops or complete full gates since everybody will now think they might have a chance to win. I totally agree with (rageatvsupermom, jdmxkid). You guys need to just worry about racing.. Just my 2 cents

bracey

12-22-2011, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by imoto247
Ok this shouldnt even of been a post. The person that started this thread (bracey) is just looking for more drama. Why would you even start a thread when you guys quit racing this year. It wasn't because of the drama. It was because you guys couldn't hack it. Your daughters couldn't be either one of the best. Why don't you not worry about the holeshot so much and worry about getting them in shape or giving them the controllable power. So they don't get tired in a lap. If you were so for this sport then why weren't you guys at the banquet this year for your award or have your older daughter at the banquet last year. This has no bearing on anything and isn't going to change. It's a great idea to have only one class. Then all the girls can say they race the best girls at nationals and there's no sandbagging or anything of that nature. It's just waste of time on Sat when you run the womens class for 6 laps when only 3 to 4 people are in it. We're not at a local, we're at a national. So by doing whats being done it will make the girls sport better. Now that the 2 veterans are retiring it will give some new girl the opportunity to do what number 7 did and win numerous championships. With this, maybe you'll even see double gate drops or complete full gates since everybody will now think they might have a chance to win. I totally agree with (rageatvsupermom, jdmxkid). You guys need to just worry about racing.. Just my 2 cents

Well i see that you just signed up yesterday ..welcome to atvriders C A

and if i wanted more drama i would have raced all 11 rounds

the drama is what i couldnt hack

you must not know much about racing because the holeshot is a pretty important part of the race ....

so let me worry about my quads and power but thanks anyway

and as far as racing i will agree with you that we was not in the greatest shape ...and still lead a few motos and made the podium 2 out of the 5 races we ran that class

and beat old # 7 once and lead her and the feild at walnut both motos 4 out of the 5 laps

and also beat old #13 twice

all thats not 2 bad for a couple of young women age 17 and 18 with a total about 30 hours a piece on a trx450r

And 1 more fact you have wrong we never quit racing we just stop driving all over just 2 race 3 or 4 women

And maybe when our whole life revolves around racing and we have rode our quad for 20 plus years maybe we can be in that perfect shape that you would like to see us in

But since we have lives outside quad racing ..and jobs ..and college..and just life to enjoy ...thats a little down our priority list for now

But for some young out of shape ...riding over powered quads .......unexperience and not trained by a pro .....not living on the road for months at a time

we didnt do to bad

And we would never chase and waste our lives chasing the pathetic dream of winning numerous championships ....all of those championships dont mean much in the real world

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 09:18 PM

Bracey is obviously related to the Dyer sisters.

All I am wondering is, if this sport doesn't consume you're life. If you're not trying to win multiple Championships. if you clearly have more important things going on in your life. Then why start a thread and create this drama?

rageatvsupermom

12-22-2011, 09:28 PM

Jessica....this is the father. You just asked the golden question....the only person here being wishy washy is him. When he cant get people to agree then he insults an bullies. I among others witnessed an outburst from him at Kentucky...when one crashed in Saturday practice jumping a jump she had no business jumping...the other would not jump it during first moto and came in 4th....he had a fit loaded them up said he was done and left...neither got to race the second moto. Again...what is the big deal....if your not worried about a championship...why do you travel to race womens when you can stay home and race?

bracey

12-22-2011, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by JDMXKID
Bracey is obviously related to the Dyer sisters.

Wow cant sneak nothing past you

bracey

12-22-2011, 09:38 PM

here we go again rageatvsupermom you seem to think that you always know so much

why do you think they had no buiseness jumping a jump that they both jumped the year before plenty of times

and that a supermini rider did on a crf150r

oh i know because no other women could do it thats why

its seems to me that if you people would spend a little less effort and time on worrying about us .....you would prob get futher in life

and again your wrong ...we left because my daughter was in some pain and her quad was not fixable ... my other daughter had lost 1 engine in practice on friday and the second engine was loseing oil after the first moto on saturday ... if you must know

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by bracey
Wow cant sneak nothing past you

Sorry, I don't get here that often. As you can tell by my number of posts. Unlike your 1000+ posts Mr. Dyer. For someone that doesn't care much, you sure seem to spend quite a bit of time on here. Btw, you never answered my question.

rageatvsupermom

12-22-2011, 09:46 PM

No never said I knew very much...just gave my opinions just like you....and we dont agree...not going to apologize for having my own thoughts. I know what I heard and saw. I guess my view differs from yours....I did not see the necessity of jumping the jump when none if the others did...not that they could not...they chose not to...smart in my opinion.

bracey

12-22-2011, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by JDMXKID
. Then why start a thread and create this drama?

it looks like to me you and others are creating the drama

look back threw this thread

iam just trying to get some facts out there

besides what do i have to gain by getting 2 classes
both my daughters was in the top class

clearly iam wanting the best for sport

and now so you dont ask why i care about it
we dont have to live and breath it to care about the future of the sport

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by bracey
here we go again rageatvsupermom you seem to think that you always know so much

why do you think they had no buiseness jumping a jump that they both jumped the year before plenty of times

and that a supermini rider did on a crf150r

oh i know because no other women could do it thats why

its seems to me that if you people would spend a little less effort and time on worrying about us .....you would prob get futher in life

and again your wrong ...we left because my daughter was in some pain and her quad was not fixable ... my other daughter had lost 1 engine in practice on friday and the second engine was loseing oil after the first moto on saturday ... if you must know

You know Mr. Dyer, you have a bad attitude. Us people don't live our lives worried about You and Your family. You started this thread and have brought the attention on you and your family. And for a man that made it very clear he thought it was wrong for another man to be disrespectful and rude to women. I'm 24 and Mrs. Manshack is a mother. How is it okay for you to be rude and disrespectful towards us?

bracey

12-22-2011, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
No never said I knew very much...just gave my opinions just like you....and we dont agree...not going to apologize for having my own thoughts. I know what I heard and saw. I guess my view differs from yours....I did not see the necessity of jumping the jump when none if the others did...not that they could not...they chose not to...smart in my opinion.

you should have your own thoughts;; but when you tell me what i did or say ...thats when i have to say that you think you know so much

see i dont care what you or your family does and i dont act like i know what they do

and as for the jump think about what you said

you said you dont think its a necessity because none of the others did

that is the excact reason why we did jump it to make up time

i hope as long as you have been around racing even you knew that is how you make up a little time

but again..... why dont you just let us race our race and you do the same .....worry about your camp

bracey

12-22-2011, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by JDMXKID
You know Mr. Dyer, you have a bad attitude. Us people don't live our lives worried about You and Your family. You started this thread and have brought the attention on you and your family. And for a man that made it very clear he thought it was wrong for another man to be disrespectful and rude to women. I'm 24 and Mrs. Manshack is a mother. How is it okay for you to be rude and disrespectful towards us?

read the post ^^^^^^^before this one

having my own opinion is not being rude ...
again you said it best

when you said
WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE

rageatvsupermom

12-22-2011, 10:11 PM

And by jumping that jump....how did that work out for you again? I by no means am worried about you or your family.....YOU started this topic on an OPEN forum.....what did you expect...everyone to agree with you? That is kinda funny. i think you need to reread this thread....it is ok for you to say things about other racers and thier families...but you can't take what you dish out.

bracey

12-22-2011, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by JDMXKID
You know Mr. Dyer, you have a bad attitude. Us people don't live our lives worried about You and Your family.?

How in the world did you come up with the idea that iam worried about your family or life

Now dont you see what i mean about you being all over the board

rageatvsupermom

12-22-2011, 10:16 PM

rageatvsupermom

12-22-2011, 10:18 PM

REread your post...i quoted it for you.

bracey

12-22-2011, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
And by jumping that jump....how did that work out for you again? I by no means am worried about you or your family.....YOU started this topic on an OPEN forum.....what did you expect...everyone to agree with you? That is kinda funny. i think you need to reread this thread....it is ok for you to say things about other racers and thier families...but you can't take what you dish out.

well would you 2 quit useing my comments cant you guys make up your own

and what do you mean i cant take what

do you mean .......you saying you know why we left a race
i just told you that you know why we left

since you think you know it all let me tell you what the rumor was about why your daughter quit

i heard your daughter quit because of all the heat to win from you and her father but since i dont know that i didnt say that anywhere i dont care why

bracey

12-22-2011, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
REread your post...i quoted it for you.

ok i did now what

rageatvsupermom

12-22-2011, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by bracey
well would you 2 quit useing my comments cant you guy make up your own

and what do you mean i cant take what

do you mean you saying you know why we left a race
i just told you that you know why we left

since you think you know it all let me tell you what the rumor was about why your daughter quit

i heard your daughter quit because of all the heat to win from you and her father but since i dont know that i didnt say that anywhere i dont care why LOL...did you start that rumor? No she got tired of the bumper quads and drama. Nothing hidden there.....you apparently dont know us very well...her father has done nothing but try to keep her from racing.....she had her quad stolen at beginning of 09.....we recovered it but it was damaged....he purposly did not fix it to keep her from racing.....what did she do....she got a manuel and fixed it herself! So no pressure from us except to race her race and do it clean.

JDMXKID

12-22-2011, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by bracey
How in the world did you come up with the idea that iam worried about your family or life

Now dont you see what i mean about you being all over the board

No Mr. Dyer, I'm right on point. I just don't think you comprehend what I say. Let me refresh your memory. You stated in one of your posts, that we need to stop worrying about "us." Referring to You and Your family. And I simply responded to make you aware that "us, people" which is everyone else, do not live our lives worried about You and Your family.

bracey

12-22-2011, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
And by jumping that jump....how did that work out for you again? .

well you should know that we only had 1 girl in the first moto with a wounded engine in 2011

and like you said we left remember

but it worked great the year before kayle passed old #7 twice in that moto and when she got passed back it kept her a lot closer then she would have been if she didnt jump it

OH YEA .....also the year before it worked good enough for my daughter kayle ...to finish ahead of your daughter both motos .....and earn her a top 3 podium finish in 2010

so all in all not bad ...but thanks for asking

bracey

12-22-2011, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
LOL...did you start that rumor? No she got tired of the bumper quads and drama. Nothing hidden there.....you apparently dont know us very well...her father has done nothing but try to keep her from racing.....she had her quad stolen at beginning of 09.....we recovered it but it was damaged....he purposly did not fix it to keep her from racing.....what did she do....she got a manuel and fixed it herself! So no pressure from us except to race her race and do it clean.

well you must not know me very well i dont care enough about you to start any rumor

and like i said i never said anything about it till now

and like you said earlier you called me a bully so if i had something to say to you or your family beleive me i would wait so i could tell you to your face ....you know how them bullies are Lol.......if you dont just ask john Lol

rageatvsupermom

12-22-2011, 10:42 PM

AWesome.

bracey

12-22-2011, 10:44 PM

and by the way rageatvsupermom and jdmxkid iam done responding to you 2 unless it has something to do with the thread ......................... thank you for your opinions

RaceEcar191

12-22-2011, 11:26 PM

Wow ! The people you come across when you attend the nationals. Starting a thread is not wanting drama? just open to comments from others. Seems very odd how you both stay up to date on a thread arguing with the family you "don't worry" about lol.
Your lives must be pretty pathetic.

This forum was about the combining of the womens class, not about some sappy "stolen/damaged quad" being put together by some girl reading a manual? Lol by the way, if there's a manual on how to put an entire race -ready quad from ground up, I'll take one :)

Hope things turn around for the sport. Any pro quad can walk in any public place, and no body even knows who you are. There really isnt a future in this sport. Not like the bikes.. for example: Bubba, Ryan V. College for these age groups is the better decision than hoping for a future in quad mx. So Bracey, I praise your kids for attending college and staying away from drama filled people like theirselves. JUST MY 2 cents ;)

But Bracey, back to the topic, I don't agree with the combining of the women's class. I don't see the benefits from this. Im Expecting to see low numbers for next season.

motofreak2772

12-22-2011, 11:36 PM

Wait.. What are women doing racing?? Shouldn't they be in the kitchen?
Haha, just kidding. But seriously this thread has way to much drama for a discussion that's supposed to be about a simple class structure change. Obviously nothing being said on here is going to make a difference so if none of this drama matters to any of you, feelings shouldn't be hurt and the flaming should just stop. I think this drama will kill the class a lot faster than the structure. Maybe 2 classes is better than one, maybe not. Either way there just needs to be more women riding. I know this is a competitive sport but you girls need to be more supportive of each other. I hate seeing the best girls of a sport being on such a lower level than the guys and the only way to fix that is to practice and push each other to do better.

RaceEcar191

12-22-2011, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by motofreak2772
Wait.. What are women doing racing?? Shouldn't they be in the kitchen?
Haha, just kidding. But seriously this thread has way to much drama for a discussion that's supposed to be about a simple class structure change. Obviously nothing being said on here is going to make a difference so if none of this drama matters to any of you, feelings shouldn't be hurt and the flaming should just stop. I think this drama will kill the class a lot faster than the structure. Maybe 2 classes is better than one, maybe not. Either way there just needs to be more women riding. I know this is a competitive sport but you girls need to be more supportive of each other. I hate seeing the best girls of a sport being on such a lower level than the guys and the only way to fix that is to practice and push each other to do better.

You couldn't have said it better :)

rageatvsupermom

12-23-2011, 01:09 AM

No drama intended here just my opinions.....are they not allowed? This is a discussion, so far there have been no real solutions except there needs to be two womens classes...but one cant be an A class or proam....because the girls cant race with the guys in a class because of the lap times. So we need a womens c then a womens b.....then what?
As it stands the womens class this year may have 5 in it....possibly. I can see the promter not wanting to have a class that is so up in the air. This year there was one race where there were 20 total women.....what is wrong with combining the class until there is a need for another. I dont see that being that big of a deal...I could be wrong....but before we yell the sky is falling why not give it a chance?

I am so sorry you thought my reference to the stolen quad being sappy....not much different than the story ofbeing ran off the track....we dont know all the story...just one the one side.

bracey

12-23-2011, 01:40 AM

well clearly i dont want any drama either so lets start over

and yes your opinion is important and thats why i started this thread ....so can we just keep our opinions to the topic please

i think that the lable on the class is important and should be called just womens class and not pro-am or a class

now here is my thoughts on that

1st ....if we want to ride a second class at the nationals and be competitive it has to be a mens B class or lower now thats me speaking of my 2 daughters and no one elses ...and if your daughter want to run the mens A class she still can nothing lost there ....so why make other women who dont want to run the mens A class do so (to each their own)

2cd ...if we want to run back home the same thing mens B class or lower again no one else iam just speaking about my 2 (because back home thats where we fit)

3rd..... and no its not just lap times that make me think (which is my opinion) that the women dont fit in with the mens A class its like i said earlier they dont jump or ride near as aggressively as the men and they dont like the rubbing racing thing (they all have made that pretty plain)

4th......they just changed the classes this past year and i think that they way they had it set up that it would build up the women class by 3 new riders a year (but it never had a chance)

5th...... lets face it even the womens c class only really had a 2 or 3 women race all year and the rest just wasnt up to their speed

6th.....we know of three womens c class women who does not like the class that puts them all together....and we think a lot more will not like it either

JDMXKID

12-23-2011, 06:17 AM

Before I get back on track, I'm going to clear a few things up. This thread was brought to my attention by one of Mr. Dyers daughters on Facebook. So I decided to check it out. I simply stated my opinion and views on things. But when someone starts WRITING IN ALL CAPS and being negative about my opinions. Then I'm going to voice back. I'm sick at the moment and locked inside a house, so I do have too much time on my hands, at the moment. And RaceEcar191; I graduated from college, got all my state licenses, got myself a career that pays for my own racing. Which is why I've been absent for majority of the Nationals. I'm damn proud of myself and my success in the real world.

I strongly feel there should be two different Women's classes. Call them what you want. But it truly isn't safe having so many different riding levels lined up together on one gate. And I don't believe anybody is done racing or retired until I see it for myself. So if Heather and/or Michelle do return to racing 2012. I would not be surprised if the Wonen's class does get separated.

RG #43

12-23-2011, 07:31 AM

Wow.
As a racer of this class and obviously not involved in enough of the events to know all of the what's what, as a racer all I want to see is that there remains at least 2 seperate classifications in the women's classes and that they take away the Sat only for the higher level womens class. Run both classes on a 1 moto per day format like all of the other am classes. I would love to race both days and in at least 2 classes, but the last 2 years it wasn't an option because of the classes being to close together. Throw in possible qualifiers....for myself it was spreading it to thin for recovery time.

I have been racing A since 05 and while I was not up in 1st or 2nd, I was having a good time. I raced B/C in 04 and I was definately in the wrong class, but you don't know until you go the first time.

A good way to ensure growth is to run a Women's A/B and a Women' C. Classes have been distinguished by A, B, C for years and through all the districts. There shouldn't be much confusion as to the proper class you belong in for more than one or 2 events. If your in a higher class, rubbing should be expected to possibly happen. Hopefully it is not malicious but you should be able to deal with it if your in B or higher. just my 2cents.

fastredrider44

12-23-2011, 08:51 AM

Over on the GNCC side of things, the classes are labeled as Women and Women Novice (15+). The girls coming from Youth fit in with Women Novice and the Fast girls from there can go to Women. There is not A/B/C class labels so that they can ride wherever they want in the local events without having to be labeled as Pro-Am or C. Just wanted to point that out to those who may not be aware.
Seems like the class label has been a repetitive topic in the last 10 pages.

motofreak2772

12-23-2011, 05:16 PM

Yeah, to me it seems like the best solution is to have a Womens and Womens Novice class that runs at the same time but with different gate drops. If the number of racers continue to drop then leave it at one class. As far as which classes they are allowed to run outside of the nationals and even at the nationals, I say leave it up to the person themselves. Local track class structures can be all screwed up especially with ATV's when the turn out is usually ridiculously small. But I'm pretty sure these girls can figure out where they belong.

QuadJunkies

12-24-2011, 07:08 PM

jandjracing

12-27-2011, 02:18 PM

I never thought Midol may have to be approached as a series sponsor, but im gonna call them!

catch22blaster

12-29-2011, 02:18 PM

I'll throw my pennies in here to.

Well personally I think The woman should be happy they even have a class. They dont call it GNC Nationals for nothing. Either you have the talent an money to race them or you dnt. If you feel its un fair cuz u have to race against a pro girl well get faster an go practice more the whole point of racing is to be the best. Its the same for everybody in any sport you do. Racing with faster girls will only make you faster aswell.... Guys or Girls, Theres always gona be someone better then you at something its a revolving way of life. Racing is racing its the way it is. Theres always going to be drama theres always going to be people who dirty bird you in the corners thats the way it is its racing Get over it. If you dnt like there being only one womans class race with the guys youll get faster ive seen plenty of girls do it.

Since ive retired in 09 from Racing nationals. Ive seen so many talented riders including myself hang it up theres no pay off its not a career. Only dirt bike racers get the fortune an fame.
Ive seen so many things happen an change. I think primarly everybody should just be happy theres still a series to even run the sport is dieing an isnt getting any better.

what it comes down to is:
If your just gonna putt putt around the track an bunny hop jumps do that at ur local track! The natonals isnt for ever girl.

Honestly here people the whole point to race nationals is to win races, Win championships thats the whole goal all that matters nobody remembers who took 2nd place they only remember the winners!!
But eventually you go broke in debt, an chase a dream where theres nothing there once you get there anyways an simply turns into a hobby.

This is FACT an cant argue Cuz im right!! I lived it

guy310

12-29-2011, 09:01 PM

Shapaka you're missing the point. When you started racing the nationals you didn't have to race your blaster against 450A riders did you? See thats the point and the argument. Its easy to form an opinion about something you can't relate to. you aren't putting yourself in their shoes to try and understand where they are coming from you're just forming an opnion based on your point of view. They have 3 A, B, and C classes for guys and a crapload of age group classes all in the name of skill development, there is no good reason they can't just keep the 2 womens classes with a double gate drop even. The ATVA is a pretty hypocritical piece of crap that hasn't advanced this sport one bit in the last 10 years. We moved 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

bracey

12-30-2011, 12:51 AM

its called building threw progression .......thats how everything works .... without a chance to progress ....theres not much to look forward to

you cant expect women to stay home and race local races untill they think they are fast enough to compete safely (in 1 class)....that just wont happen

i think they need to have at least 2 classes for the women and they should be 2 separate classes for the womens classes to grow ....1 thing is for sure the womens class will never build the numbers up.... if the ATVA never gives them a chance

And the 2011 class structure gave them a chance threw progression ...(top 3 womens c class riders each year had to move up)

1....for the entry level women

2...for the more advanced women

catch22blaster

12-30-2011, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by guy310
Shapaka you're missing the point. When you started racing the nationals you didn't have to race your blaster against 450A riders did you? See thats the point and the argument. Its easy to form an opinion about something you can't relate to. you aren't putting yourself in their shoes to try and understand where they are coming from you're just forming an opnion based on your point of view. They have 3 A, B, and C classes for guys and a crapload of age group classes all in the name of skill development, there is no good reason they can't just keep the 2 womens classes with a double gate drop even. The ATVA is a pretty hypocritical piece of crap that hasn't advanced this sport one bit in the last 10 years. We moved 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

back in like 01-03 when i was still on my blaster at locals i raced open quad an 2 stroke an finished half way in the pack on half the machine every weekend. so I can relate to this discussion. Becuase I chose to race those classes. You only get faster riding with faster ppl. Then when it was time to move up on the 450 an it came easy. An personally there shouldnt be 3 -4 A classes an B an so on. theres not enough racers to even fill the gates as it is.

What im saying is there all on 450s in the womans class its all about whoever holds the gas on longer an isnt scared to hit the jumps. Yea machine makes a huge difference but its the Nationals for a reason. But if you hit the jumps your good to go. When you split the two classes up you have faster girls that run the C class an beat the rest of the girls by a half a track, but the girls that beat up on them in c are to scared to run womans pro am cuz then they wont win. I agree with u Mr dyer to a certain extent i guess on the woman novice but where will the line be drawn at to determine if your to good to run the novice??? Yea there are some very talented woman riders no doubt. Idk why ur upset Mr. Dyer 3 of the talented womans riders are all 3 of your daughters well if brittany would ride again.but I also agree with u though its pointless to drive half way around the states for a nice $12 plaqe.

FHKracingZ

12-30-2011, 11:22 AM

I disagree with you on some points Matt. You need to realize that some people do not take racing as serious as we have/do.

You need to realize some people actually take vacation days to come to nationals and want to have a good time. There should be 2 womens classes to separate the serious racers to the novice.

If little betty and her dad who for say race maybe one a month locally want to go try a close national race they should be able to without having to race against byrd, natalie, and the dyers.

The point of racing nationals to 90% of the people that attend them is NOT to win championships. VERY VERY few people are lucky enough to race a majority of the nationals. Most come to one or two a year and want to just have a good time.

I was asked to go watch a GNCC race with Ian Harris and Denoble this fall. What I expected and what I saw where two different things. GNCC racing is how MX use to be, grassroots. Very few huge haulers, fancy rigs. Infact I seen more tents than anything else. I think we need more of that. Them people are there to do one thing, have a good time. I think that has been lost at the nationals with all these false hopes and dreams of kids making a living racing.

The promoters need to put their egos aside and cater to the types of racers that keep this sport alive, the weekend warriors.

939yamaha

12-30-2011, 12:16 PM

true. most people race the nationals because their fun. race as many as your funds allow you. dont go in debt to pursue a championship. racing was supposed to all be about fun. look at how many parents spend all their money on golf or baseball. what percentage of them make a living doing that. same thing with bikes. they have it better than us. but not much. look how hard it was for dungey and stewart to find rides.

kind of off topic i know

but i dont like when people have the attitude that if you cant make a living doing it. dont do it at all. its for fun. some of the most fun my family has is at the nationals. so why quit. its fun.

QuadJunkies

12-30-2011, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by FHKracingZ
I disagree with you on some points Matt. You need to realize that some people do not take racing as serious as we have/do.

You need to realize some people actually take vacation days to come to nationals and want to have a good time. There should be 2 womens classes to separate the serious racers to the novice.

If little betty and her dad who for say race maybe one a month locally want to go try a close national race they should be able to without having to race against byrd, natalie, and the dyers.

The point of racing nationals to 90% of the people that attend them is NOT to win championships. VERY VERY few people are lucky enough to race a majority of the nationals. Most come to one or two a year and want to just have a good time.

I was asked to go watch a GNCC race with Ian Harris and Denoble this fall. What I expected and what I saw where two different things. GNCC racing is how MX use to be, grassroots. Very few huge haulers, fancy rigs. Infact I seen more tents than anything else. I think we need more of that. Them people are there to do one thing, have a good time. I think that has been lost at the nationals with all these false hopes and dreams of kids making a living racing.

The promoters need to put their egos aside and cater to the types of racers that keep this sport alive, the weekend warriors.
I agree !!
I was sitting here typing up a novel, but you pretty much summed up how I see it as well .

guy310

12-30-2011, 01:11 PM

Matt not all of the girls were on 450's in womens novice. There were several girls on either a blaster or 300's that were old enough to race the class but not old enough to ride 450's. That is another primary reason to have a womens novice class. Now as the rule states you can still race this class at 12 years old and yet you can't be on a machine thats equal to the rest. I know, that is a choice they would have to make, and we did decise that it was better to race a 250 at 14 against the women than it was to sit at home or only race some locals. And again, as you stated you used to race locals against faster guys and then went to nationals but I am sure you didnt race the nationals in open 2 stroke while you were on a blaster and certainly not at 14 or 15. With that being said, the girls who were on the smaller quads did not complain one bit, in fact I think they felt privileged to be out there racing against some of the faster women and they actually did pretty well overall but they still pay the same money as everyone else and in turn deserve the same rights in class selection as everyone else also.

catch22blaster

12-30-2011, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by guy310
Matt not all of the girls were on 450's in womens novice. There were several girls on either a blaster or 300's that were old enough to race the class but not old enough to ride 450's. That is another primary reason to have a womens novice class. Now as the rule states you can still race this class at 12 years old and yet you can't be on a machine thats equal to the rest. I know, that is a choice they would have to make, and we did decise that it was better to race a 250 at 14 against the women than it was to sit at home or only race some locals. And again, as you stated you used to race locals against faster guys and then went to nationals but I am sure you didnt race the nationals in open 2 stroke while you were on a blaster and certainly not at 14 or 15. With that being said, the girls who were on the smaller quads did not complain one bit, in fact I think they felt privileged to be out there racing against some of the faster women and they actually did pretty well overall but they still pay the same money as everyone else and in turn deserve the same rights in class selection as everyone else also.

Yea I get what ur saying thats makes sense understandable. Im not agruing im just going along with it. So really what they need to do is change the rules to that current 8-15 girls class that they already have an allow youth girls without 450s to race it. thats all they need really.

It would be no different then the 16-24 class.

icecreammaker

12-30-2011, 02:22 PM

guy310

12-30-2011, 02:50 PM

Its amazing when someone posts on an existing thread and there post is so irrelevant and out of touch with the theme of the discussion that it is barely a coherent thought. For example we have Black Sheep . I can't ever remember a time in ATV or motorcycle racing when Amateur Nationals has had only a Pro class but maybe "Back In The Good Old 3-Wheeler Days" or "When Dinosaurs Roamed The Earth" thats the way it might have been, I don't know but nobody cares and nobody wants to hear about it. I don't know because I was always way too smart to ride a 3-Wheeler. But anyway, nobody was arguing that the ATVA should make any special concessions regarding competition for the women or anything other than to offer a class that they had last year. There are other classes that had an average of 4 or 5 riders and they didn't stop those classes.

And one more thing. ATV racing was at it's peak when 3-Wheelers were around? Really? They had more than 800 amateur and pro racers show up and pay $40 to get in and race at a 3 Wheeler National? I don't know, I think I would have to see it to believe it.

guy310

12-30-2011, 04:20 PM

I get tired of hearing how great things were when every drunk toothless hillbilly idiot was riding 3-wheelers thats all.

The majority of your posts start with "When 3 Wheelers Ruled The World" etc. and nobody really cares.

The Nationals we are talking about are also Amateur races, with a Pro class in addition to all of the amateur classes. You miss the point of the discussion which is what I have already said. I don't recall seeing one comment on this thread where someone said "everyone is too fast, I want to race against slower people". The argument was for skill progression through mulitple classes. That shouldn't be too hard for you to understand but apparently it is.

And let's get real, the NEATV is a good series and all but it is still just a regional series at best. And I have seen you guys ride in Ohio and its 1 or 2 guys who can ride and are on decent looking machines while the rest of the representatives of what you refer to as an "Open Pro" class leave much to be desired. A bunch of flannel shirt/Carhart wearing rednecks on busted down 250r/Tecate/200X/250X/350X 3-wheelers does not make it a Pro level class. You can call it whatever you want but it doesn't make it so.

Factory teams come and go as you know but no amount of teams can singlehandedly support the industry that is our sport. That comes from the Amateurs who you are obviously so superior to. They are the people buying the parts, paying the entry fees, subscribing to the magazines, etc. that keep things going not Mega Factory teams. If you are using the number of factory teams in existence to measure the popularity in our sport then I guess you are correct, the world was a much better place way back when but I just don't think that is a true measure of involvement or participation in this sport, whether it be MX, HS, TT, or whatever discipline is your favorite.

And by the way, I am impressed by your clever use of emoticons. It reminds me of my 14-year old daughter texting her friends. You are clearly smarter than the rest of us unenlightened 4-wheeler dummies so I don't know why you waste your time here.

939yamaha

12-30-2011, 07:12 PM

they average close to 20. they had ten maybe when everyone else was racing wpsa...

FHKracingZ

12-30-2011, 09:08 PM

Blacksheep I dont agree with you on a few things. Just because it is a national does not mean its the best of the best and such. ATV Racing is not big enough to support a national series where it requieres regional qualifying to thin the herd.

Also you can believe what you want but how much factory support is involved does not do anything to the amateur numbers. CAN-AM has had by FAR the biggest factory support in ATV racing since 2008 with a great contigency program for amateurs. Besides the cole family how many top amateurs do you see on canams competing? That should be a perfect indication that we will remain to pull 500-800 riders each national regardless of the pro class success.

Now when we had the WPSA that was a different story. It was sort of the new and vibrant thing to do and it sounded like a promising future. The nationals still pulled 400-700 riders each race in 2007 while only having THREE contending pros at the nationals (byrd, p.brown, lawson.)

We need to stick together as a sport and stop trying to be something we are not. Yes ATVs do outsell sleds, dirt bikes, and UTVS combined but on a realistic level, I would guess 75% of ATV buyers could care less about walking across the street to see a ATV motocross race.

QuadJunkies

12-30-2011, 11:50 PM

I feel fortunate that we have a class for every rider in the WORCS series..our promoter covers just about any class .

motofreak2772

12-31-2011, 01:17 AM

This thread is getting off topic, but I don't think we need factory rides. We need outside support. Seriously if this sport could get some help from random big name companies, we will easily gain the factories back and maybe TV coverage. I would have thought that when the whole wpsa deal was going down a lot more outside support would have hopped on board. Does the ATVA have representatives or something that go out and try to make these things happen? There are enough companies in the racing scene to make some awesome teams, they just need funding. Yes, the track will start to look like nascar but I think it's worth it.

honda250xrider

12-31-2011, 08:24 AM

If there are only a few girls turning out for these events then what is the point of running several separate classes? Just so you can please a few people?

The faster riders in theory should be out in front of the novice riders so what is the big deal with letting them run in the same class? Or is the big problem that people want to make the podium and the novice girls are not likely to do so?

The point is it costs extra money and time to run an extra class and if it has a low turnout then they just wasted resources.

Once the girls start showing more involvement at the races and consistently showing up to have a decent starting gate then they can worry about running multiple classes.

I do not like how the nationals are setup. I think we would be wise at a marketing standpoint to completely separate the pros from the amateur riders and have separate events much like the dirt bikes. We need to have a amateur national series then a Pro national series.

QuadJunkies

12-31-2011, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by honda250xrider If there are only a few girls turning out for these events then what is the point of running several separate classes? Just so you can please a few people? The faster riders in theory should be out in front of the novice riders so what is the big deal with letting them run in the same class? Or is the big problem that people want to make the podium and the novice girls are not likely to do so? The point is it costs extra money and time to run an extra class and if it has a low turnout then they just wasted resources. Once the girls start showing more involvement at the races and consistently showing up to have a decent starting gate then they can worry about running multiple classes. I do not like how the nationals are setup. I think we would be wise at a marketing standpoint to completely separate the pros from the amateur riders and have separate events much like the dirt bikes. We need to have a amateur national series then a Pro national series. I dont agreee with you at all on this, but I do understand what your saying... and thats fine . None of us seems to agree with alot of whatone has to say on the topic LOL Actually.... when you have a larger turnout it also has more profit . If you only have a couple of classes to fit into it really is no better suited for you than just local racing . Your now expecting a National track to support itself on just a few people ? If were going to go with that mentality, then its no better than local racing . WE HERE dont have an MX series.... we run WORCS as I already mentioned and yes .. it DOES WORK.We have grown from 65+ people in 2003 (my first WORCS race ) to anywhere from 400-750 per round here on the West Coast . Quad X series also has a class for everyone and its still doing well ,considering the economy efforts . You travel 1000 miles to race a Pro Am rider,you want to be competitive with the same group of girls....your also in THE WAY of a Pro Am girls race and its effecting her race. In our series C class females race with the minis . We spend over 18,000 miles a year to race with those who share the same level of racing . I know we personally wouldnt go !
My Daughter JUST this summer moved up with womens A and went into it with the mentality its time to speed up to get better . Having someone else set your pace can be a really good thing, it can also bite u in the arss. LOL Thats not always pleasing for them but it sure beats getting ran over and causing someone getting landed on. Here in WORCS ...Pro Am's and C riders get different courses for us so its hard to compare but it still is a National .
IMO The ATV racing does not support an large enough demand on the racing or the spectator standpoint to support two separate series.
You know what ??? Girls actually are more involved in racing than they were 10 years ago . I do see everyones point ,but as a female, I also see her point .And actually... its not at a girls standpoint, it woudl be that way with any novice rider .

You guys are taking this topic WAAAYY further than it needs to be . Im not going to sit here and argue, no one is going to have the same opinion until it effects them personally. Please stay on topic folks and keep the topic productive and no bashing or Ill shut it down.

QuadJunkies

12-31-2011, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by bracey its called building threw progression .......thats how everything works .... without a chance to progress ....theres not much to look forward to you cant expect women to stay home and race local races untill they think they are fast enough to compete safely (in 1 class)....that just wont happen i think they need to have at least 2 classes for the women and they should be 2 separate classes for the womens classes to grow ....1 thing is for sure the womens class will never build the numbers up.... if the ATVA never gives them a chance And the 2011 class structure gave them a chance threw progression ...(top 3 womens c class riders each year had to move up) 1....for the entry level women 2...for the more advanced women .;)

Our top girls have to advance in our series at the end of the year, unless theres some changes in lap times and the obvious ,then they advnace and carry over points . I hope it all pans out . If not , come out West to race ! :D